Definitions we can all agree on

[Neo]

you may want to note whether you're offering what you understand is the legal land or your own personal definition.  please add words you'd like defined or you want known, added, etc..

contract / coercion / legal / law / property / reality / public / private / nature / natural / sex / drug/s / pornography / prostitution / crime / freedom / liberty / free

[NonEntity]

Neo Wrote:contract

coercion

legal  <--- open for debate.

law  <--- also open for debate, ie, "natural law,"  "legislative law,"  regulation masquerading as law and so on.

property  <---  Ha ha ha ha!!!  I think we have a world record thread showing our disagreement on this one!  ;D

reality

public

private

Comments in green are mine.

Perhaps you'd be so good as to give the definitions which you believe we all can agree on and then we'll have somewhere to start from.  (Since it appears that you believe these terms are self-evidently clear.)  [no sarcasm intended]

- NonE

[Lummox3]

Only a suggestion but there might be more traction in coming to some form of methodology as to how to find definitions than in finding the definitions themselves.

Me, I like factual reality, but that discounts stuff like contracts, property and so on. In which case there must be something else that can be found and used.

That said, I would like to see a definition of -

Voluntary

Trade

Coercion

Causality

Cromulent

[Neo]

Part of freedom is defining words any way you want to, even if everyone else defines them some other way.  The point of this thread is not to establish a right or official definition.  The point is to show that before people can work together on a common goal, it can be a good idea to make sure they understand each other to try and minimize conflict while they work together and also if one fails to do what the other expected.

Example, if they have different ideas as to what a contract is and or coercion, property, etc., entering into a contract can be a bad idea.

[Lummox3]

Okidoki, we are on the same page then. 

[NonEntity]

Neo Wrote:Part of freedom is defining words any way you want to, even if everyone else defines them some other way.

Neo, (and others, too, ov course)

I read a fascinating book a year or several ago called "The Tyranny of Words."  It was written in the 40s as I recall and is not the easiest to find.  It's an inquiry into words and symbology and how we think.  We use symbols to think, which is why zen budhism is so interesting as it attempts to force us to abandon our symbols - NOT an easy task. 

At any rate.  I recommend this book VERY highly.

- NonE

[eye2i2hear]

a little ditty I've had stuck back for awhile, but seems here provides a place for posting it... (and seeing as how it's been stuck back, obviously some of the suggestions on Neo's and other's list might not be included... yet)


A bit of a Adventures In LegalLand Wikictionary... so please feel free to offer entries, modification, clarification, or correction suggestions! 
*note: as post originator I will seek to be the voluntary moderator; but by default any final arbitration (if the case arises) is clearly marc's [see "property"]*  [img width=166 height=49]http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s31/smilies-21813.png[/img]


Definitions versus Daffynitions in LegalLand

For starters of course:

Definition:  word meanings as commonly used or voluntarily agreed to as understood for seeking the most effective communication and interactive benefit

Daffynition:  word meanings as used by those practicing a deceptive art or craft; eg legal "definitions"/"terms", statutory or restrictive or control-serving meanings/terms then propagated as definitions

note: unfortunately presently, too many daffynitions are believed to be the common definitions; to the extent that the popular meaning held in most's mind is not the actual, common or etymylogical-revealed meaning.



Anarchy.  definition: "an" meaning "no or without" + the greek "archy" meaning "overhead or above"; thus most literally, "no one above or over"; historically, "no chief" or no higher authority; a recognition that all humans are equal in their claim to government, aka self government; self-government, self-control

Anarchy.  daffynition: chaos, looting, riotous, rebellion, and something to be greatly feared, akin to terroristic threat



Bar Association. definition: a group or incorporation of sleezy con artists, or delusional word artists, claiming to stand for justice for all, but actually doing the work of their exclusive extortionist religious club

Bar Association. daffynition: an association of honorable individuals who know law and, based upon said law, stand for justice for all as representation in a court



Citizen. definition: 1) a concept which allows that a person voluntarily choosing to associate with others contractually, pledging their allegiance for a duty of protection 2) a delusional guy or gal claiming membership in a group of other delusional liars, killers, and thieves calling themselves The State, all holding the delusion that their fictional concepts are real, factual, valid; while submitting to that group think & speak, and holding it as binding on all others in a geographical area certain; aka "submitizen" (submit+citizen).  A citizen is one owing their subjection to those calling themselves the State who in return promise them nothing.

Citizen. daffynition: a member of a body politic, granted by either birth place or naturalization, with a duty of allegiance to a State, which has the reciprocal duty to protect said citizens



Drive. definition: to safely maneuver a piece of machinery, like a car or truck, in order to physically move or travel about from one point to another, while causing no injury to others doing likewise

Drive. daffynition: a privilege granted by The State to its citizens, by which they operate a motor vehicle on road ways; in its literal sense (rather than its crafted popular sense), it is the restricted and controlled permission to "operate" a "motor vehicle" in order to make "gross income" (see "income")



Free. definition: 1) 100% control of one's life and property and and 0% control of any other's life and property (see Liberty) 2) whatever believers in The State (see daffynition "The State") say you are; their opinion about your condition of subjection on the eState commercial plantation

Free. daffynition: not subject to legal restraint of another



Income.  definition: not really a word common folk use unless dealing with State-think; they just refer to their "pay", which is simply property (called labor or work or the result thereof) exchanged for property (called money or a pay check or bank deposit); any amount of monetary form someone receives that The State has decided someone owes a tax or duty on; in its literal (statutory craft sense) it is what fictional entities called "individuals" or "persons", under the additional fictional concept of incorporation, as having "wages" and "earnings", owe a percentage of, called tax

Income.  daffynition: [unknown per the U.S.Code/IRS Code as it is defined nowhere among its otherwise plethora of terms laboriously and specifically Stated; however The Courts have declared income as]:  the idea of gain or increase arising from corporate activities; derived--from--capital--the--gain--derived--from--capitol, etc-- not gain accruing to capitol, not growth or increment of value in the investment; but a gain, a profit, something of exchangeable value...severed from capitol however invested or employed and coming in, being "derived", that is received or drawn by the recipient for his separate use, benefit and disposal--that is the income derived from property.  [noting then that legal income is not something received in equitable exchange, ie a paycheck or money for labor/work done-- eye2i]



Liberty.  definition: 1) a concept that is the result of individuals choosing to restrain certain freedoms in exchange for other individual or individual's benefits; the state of being of free individuals associating with other free individuals  2) whatever Statists wish to call what's left from their control and dominance of individuals  3) the name of convenience stores, ships, finance companies, loan companies, and tax companies, etc

Liberty.  daffynition: freedom from all restraints except such as are justly imposed by law.  The absence of arbitrary restraint, not immunity from reasonable regulations and prohibitions imposed by the interests of the community [aka "The State"]



Native American.  definition: any human birthed by their mother while she was dwelling upon the land known as "America"; a phrase simply distinguishing individual's past for mutually advantageous reasoning

Native American.  daffynition: a statutory legal term for any, but only, "red" (bronze) skinned human dwelling upon the land known as "The United States Of America" prior to the so-called discovery of America by Columbus in 1492AD, or any direct biological descendant therefrom; thus Eskimoes (in Alaska, America) are not legal "native americans", nor are Mexicans or any south of "The U.S. border" (ie Central and South Americans); note that Columbus in believing he had arrived in India, called these particular (bronze-skinned) native americans (see definition above) "Indians".


Person.  definition: a human being, male or female

Person.  daffynition: generally all human beings, but also any imagined concept agreed to be such in any given context



Property. definition: 1) a concept used to establish areas of highest claim via time investment in or over natural resources  2.) whatever one wishes to have or take and can get enough others to agree with and violently support the result (called then "legal"; see daffynition)

Property. daffynition: that which belongs exclusively to one, as an aggregate of rights which are guaranteed and protected by government


Religion. definition: belief based ultimately upon faith in other men's words (aka hearsay), for which the believer unquestionably is willing to live and ultimately give his life, and in some instances take other's lives over; generally includes superstition and particularly claims about origins of reality, especially the likes of "Truth", "Good and Evil", and "God" (deities/the divine) e.g. Nationalism, Stateism, Authority, Christianity, Islam, Judaism. [Wiktionary.org: from religō (“I bind back or behind”), from re + ligō (“I tie, bind, or bandage”)

Religion. daffynition: 1.) a collection of practices/rituals, based on beliefs and teachings that are highly valued or sacred; 2.) some degree of formalizing and/or institutionalizing some group's divinity/god/truths; 3.) belief in the revelation of the sacred/holy ("higher truth") that comes from outside of man's mind i.e. is divine, or from an "eternal" deity, and is applicable to all humans; 4.) an ideological and traditional heritage


State. definition: 1) an empirically based concept accepted regarding land and geographical area certain, used simply to ease effective communication among those in voluntary association; eg a state of geographical affairs  2) the barrel of a gun; aka The State or THE STATE OF; a fictional concept, in which belief in it is by enforcement or threat of violence, then called voluntary compliance; empirically, it is simply those specific individual people with faith in their belief in the fictional concept, basing their actions upon that belief; part of the belief includes all the religious writings and dogmas called legislation, law, and precedent, along with the high priests, called attorneys and judges that perform the ministry, including the temple guards called law enforcement officers; conveniently, the concept is connived to include a geographical area specific; syn: Nation

State.  daffynition: a body politic owing and providing a duty of protection in reciprocation for a pledge of allegiance from its citizenry



Tax.  definition: armed theft of property, disguised via words of art as something lawful, dutiful, moral and good

Tax.  daffynition: a citizen's due fair share of his or her money, paid voluntarily for due support of The State in order for it to protect and serve The People



The Constitution. definition: a piece of old paper with scribblings (see "English") in ink on it, conveying concepts and precepts held by a specific religious group of individuals in 1789AD, held concurrently to validate the use of force and coercion upon others

The Constitution. daffynition: a gloriously, if not divinely inspired, honorable legal document written for U.S. Citizens, the supreme law of the land, revered as binding, enforceable and perpetual upon any and all living in The United States



The United States.  definition: an originally empirically tied idea, but totally invalid concept, called a "Nation", supposedly made up of yet another immoral and invalid concept called "States", but with the ability to mean any of a number of daffynitions when convenient [see State]

The United States.  daffynition: a phrase of several meanings (see Black's Law Dictionary, The USC, Juris Prudence, and etc, etc, etc ad nauseum/ad infintum)


Voluntary. definition: acting by choice and without threat, coercion, or outside restraint

Voluntary. daffynition: 1) done by design or intention (eg "Tax Code")  2) within income taxation and military service, compliance and subjection by social contract implication


Vote. definition: 1) wherever one spends their time, particularly represented in the form of money, both present and, via contract or agreement, future  2) secretly marking one's approval of that which they wish to be enforced upon others down on a piece of paper or via an electronic device called a ballot and placing said ballot in a box or its electronic record, to be sent to be counted relative to determining the status of certain thugs, do-gooders, and thieves, called "representatives", and their opinions, called "legislation"

Vote. daffynition: a citizen of a State's honor and civic duty regarding electing their representatives, and subsequently determining the status of legislation therefrom

=====================================

* revised 10/07: updated daffynition of "income"
* edited 10/11: forum transfer code updates
* revised 10/11: added "religion"

[Neo]

that is excellant.  a freedom wiki also has a lot of possibilities.  one free of the current wiki online.

[Lummox3]

Words - tools to communicate with others and get things done. (Private sector)

Words - WHATEVER I SAY THEY MEAN! - (Statist sector.)

[NonEntity]

Lummox3 Wrote:Words - tools to communicate with others and get things done. (Private sector)

Words - WHATEVER I SAY THEY MEAN! - (Statist sector.)

Freedom = Tyranny!  YAY!!!  ;D ;D ;D

- NonE

[KittyAW]

Neo Wrote:Part of freedom is defining words any way you want to, even if everyone else defines them some other way.  The point of this thread is not to establish a right or official definition.  The point is to show that before people can work together on a common goal, it can be a good idea to make sure they understand each other to try and minimize conflict while they work together and also if one fails to do what the other expected.

Example, if they have different ideas as to what a contract is and or coercion, property, etc., entering into a contract can be a bad idea.

Worthwhile subject material for a thread, Neo.

First, however, I offer the recommendation that everyone understand what a definition consists of in order to truly be a definition - a genus and differentia as a minimum.  I offer for reading the webpage, "The Definition of Definitions" http://samvak.tripod.com/define.html  which I just found with a web search after reading some of the messages on this thread. I haven't examined it with a fine-tooth comb, but at first reading of major portions it looks very good at explaining what is necessary for truly useful definitions.

Paul (with my help) has provided precise definitions for a large number of words used in the Natural Social Contract (NSC) and included annotations for why he has done so in a particular manner. From the Introduction to the NSC:
"The words defined in the Definitions section of The Contract are technical terms whose definitions have the purpose of making The Contract and its Stipulations clear and self-consistent. Since The Contract is conceived of and written as a self-contained axiomatic System, the meaning of each technical term is only that which can be obtained from its definition and its InterRelationships with other technical terms within all Sections of the NSC. Nevertheless the words used for the technical terms have been chosen so that their meaning within The Contract is related to some important meaning of the corresponding vernacular word. However, because certain necessary concepts do not even appear to occur in current vernacular language, in order to make the axiomatic System described by The Contract accurately Model the Social part of human Reality needing a formal Contract, in a manner most likely to enable humans to optimally increase their Lifetime Happiness all at the same time, it was necesary to make some of the definitions significantly different than existing vernacular words."

Readers here may find it worthwhile to read these (with the annotations) and bring here those words with which they agree or disagree with our definitions. In either case the discussion could be fruitful all around.

For example, we see and define important differences between freedom and liberty - but I won't try to paraphrase here. The NSC definitions and annotations are best read first.

Regarding the NSC as a document, I hope that readers here will read the Special Note at the top of that webpage and follow the recommendations. http://selfsip.org/solutions/NSC.html

**Kitty Antonik Wakfer

[Lummox3]

Love the website. KittyAW. Some things for to look at and I would like to discuss about it - the nature of property ownership (it's not something you and I do, it's something you and I don't), the general impossibility of agency, and -

Nominalisation - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://users.aber.ac.uk/jpm/paraphrase%20and%20summary/Nominalisation.html">http://users.aber.ac.uk/jpm/paraphrase% ... ation.html</a><!-- m -->

Nominalisation

Nominalisation is concerned with changing a verb to a noun or vice versa, for example: lead/led -> leader.

She led the group.

She was the leader of the group.

[NonEntity]

KittyAW Wrote:

Neo Wrote:First, however, I offer the recommendation that everyone understand what a definition consists of in order to truly be a definition - a genus and differentia as a minimum.  I offer for reading the webpage, "The Definition of Definitions" http://samvak.tripod.com/define.html  which I just found with a web search after reading some of the messages on this thread. I haven't examined it with a fine-tooth comb, but at first reading of major portions it looks very good at explaining what is necessary for truly useful definitions.

Kitty,

That's a good reference and I'm finding it worth reading.  One point of contention I have is here: "But whatever the case, a definition must include a genus and a differentia because, as we said, it is bound to reflect reality and reality is hierarchical and inclusive ("The Matriushka Doll Principle")."

The more I examine life the more I tend to question this assumption.  In fact, there was an excellent article on the subject of the internet that I recently read (and can't remember where) which pointed out that one of the major benefits of the internet and modern computing speed is that we no longer need to categorize things hierarchically, but rather can leave all data random and then examine it from whatever perspective suits our purposes at the time.  I think that the author made a profoundly important point.

I suggest that perhaps this hierarchical stuff is more based upon our limited mental ability to deal with massive data than the inherent qualities of said data.

- NonE

[damageinc.]

9 WORDS WOMEN USE ;D

1.  Fine: This is the word women use to end an argument when they are right and you need to shut up.

2.  Five Minutes: If she is getting dressed, this means a half an hour.  Five minutes is only five minutes if you have just been given five more minutes to watch the game before helping around the house.

3.  Nothing: This is the calm before the storm. This means something, and you should be on your toes. Arguments that begin with nothing usually end in fine.

4. Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!

5.  Loud Sigh: This is actually a word, but is a non-verbal statement often misunderstood by men. A loud sigh means she thinks you are an idiot and wonders why she is wasting her time standing here and arguing with you about nothing. (Refer back to #3 for the meaning of nothing.)

6. That's Okay: This is one of the most dangerous statements a women can make to a man. That's okay means she wants to think long and hard before deciding how and when you will pay for your mistake.

7. Thanks: A woman is thanking you, do not question, or Faint. Just say you're welcome.

8. Whatever: Is a women's way of saying F@!K YOU!

9. Don't worry about it, I got it: Another dangerous statement, meaning this is something that a woman has told a man to do several times, but is now doing it herself. This will later result in a man asking  "What's wrong?" For the woman's response refer to #3.

Teach this to the men you know, to warn them about arguments they can avoid if they remember the terminology. :-\

Due to the climate of "political" correctness now pervading America,
Kentuckians, Tennesseans and West Virginians will no longer be referred
to as "HILLBILLIES."

You must now refer to them as APPALACHIAN-AMERICANS.


And furthermore

HOW TO SPEAK ABOUT WOMEN AND BE POLITICALLY CORRECT:


1. She is not a " BABE" or a "CHICK" - She is a "BREASTED AMERICAN."

2. She is not "EASY" - She is "HORIZONTALLY ACCESSIBLE."

3. She is not a "DUMB BLONDE" - She is a "LIGHT-HAIRED DETOUR OFF THE
INFORMATION SUPERHIGHWAY."

4. She has not "BEEN AROUND" - She is a "PREVIOUSLY-ENJOYED
COMPANION."

5. She does not "NAG" you - She becomes "VERBALLY REPETITIVE."

6. She is not a "TWO-BIT HOOKER" - She is a "LOW COST PROVIDER."

HOW TO SPEAK ABOUT MEN AND BE POLITICALLY CORRECT:

1. He does not have a "BEER GUT" - He has developed a "LIQUID GRAIN
STORAGE FACILITY."

2. He is not a "BAD DANCER" - He is "OVERLY CAUCASIAN."

3. He does not "GET LOST ALL THE TIME" - He "INVESTIGATES ALTERNATIVE
DESTINATIONS."

4. He is not "BALDING" - He is in "FOLLICLE REGRESSION."

5. He does not act like a "TOTAL ASS" - He develops a case of
RECTAL-CRANIAL INVERSION."


6. It's not his "CRACK" you see hanging out of his pants - It's "REAR
CLEAVAGE."

[Neo]

The below are generalizations but point in the right direction.  Saw these on mind-trek.com.

Authority = pretentious
Border = fiction
Bureaucrat = parasite
Citizen = slave
Conformance = stagnation
Constitution = con
Election = farce
Government = mafia
Jurisdiction = fraud
Law = lie
Lawyer = confusor
Nation = nonsense
Obedience = unconsciousness
Politician = liar
Politics = deception
President = imposter
Prime-minister = prime-imposter
Representative = duper
Tax = theft
Vote = hoax