There are no "rights," only choices.

[NonEntity]

I'm reading a fascinating short piece on rights (PDF), and it simply confirms for me what I've come to grasp, that there are no "rights," there are only choices. One may choose to operate with respect for others or one may choose to use force to get one's wished fulfilled regardless of the wishes of others. Neither is "right" or wrong. Neither is "natural" or unnatural. Both are natural. It simply comes down to the kind of world one desires to live in, and since we, to a certain extent, create the worlds in which we live, it comes down to the kind of world we, each individual one of us, choose to create.

As another has said, more succinctly, "There are actions, and there are consequences."

- NonE

[Jace: Johanson]

All a right really is is a cognitive acknowledgement that action A led to reaction B (when this actually is, in truth, the objective reality which occurred). It'd work the same if the word "accurate" were changed to the noun part of speech, so we would say, "I have an "accurate" to B, because I caused it through action A." It sounds funny, but words shift parts of speech all the time. A right is merely a full acknowledgement of fact and an acceptance of the premise that action universally belongs to and is insepereable from it's reaction and vice versa. It was an interesting paper. What might be good as an extension paper would be the microcosm of the conjoined twins alone, in there struggle for either dominance or equilibrium. I agree with their conclusion that it only supports the idea of NAP.

[Jonathanr]

Rights are a cultural phenomena, and are heavily dependent on the wealth of the host culture. If there is sufficient surplus, then additional 'rights' may become recognized. I think there is a threshold, however, whereby certain rights proclaimed by a vocal minority are heavily dependent on the violation of other rights, which are tolerated only because there is surplus wealth.

i.e. taxation and welfare style wealth redistribution is tolerated by the wealthy because they have surplus. If there wasn't the surplus, then there'd be no chance in a month of sundays that anyone would willingly or even begrudgingly recognize or tolerate the 'luxury' rights that impose upon other more fundamental rights.

We saw this breakdown occur in Zimbabwe, in which the livelihood of white farmers was devastated by the attempt at providing for the "rights" of the black population. Of course, the corollary of that is that the "rights" of the indiginous black population were originally trampled on by the colonial whites. I think the term for this mechanism is "blowback".

[denizen]

(12-26-2011 07:42 AM)NonEntity Wrote:  As another has said, more succinctly, "There are actions, and there are consequences."

and to which could be appended: "the actual consequences MAY, or MAY NOT be those that were anticipated:

also; as gets mentioned about every 3 years here, whether needed or not:

the only thing going on in life is:
that most individuals (over time) tend to learn which actions/behaviors work out best for themselves!


(in spite of the above comments - MUTUAL CONSENT RULES! )

[eye2i2hear]

(12-30-2011 01:00 AM)denizen Wrote:  the only thing going on in life is:
that most individuals (over time) tend to learn which actions/behaviors work out best for themselves!

denizen, I'm genuinely interested in what the word 'learn' means or entails here? Could you Taboo it for me? Or asked another way, what might that process mostly or predominantly involve or boil down to?

[denizen]

(12-30-2011 06:10 AM)eye2i2hear Wrote:  

(12-30-2011 01:00 AM)denizen Wrote:  the only thing going on in life is:
that most individuals (over time) tend to learn which actions/behaviors work out best for themselves!

denizen, I'm genuinely interested in what the word 'learn' means or entails here? Could you Taboo it for me? Or asked another way, what might that process mostly or predominantly involve or boil down to?

Eye2 - you already know how unlikely it is for me to compose anything more than one sentence
maybe I needed to stipulate that I was referring only to direct interactions between individuals. And that 'most' discover that use of force on others is less than cool. I was excluding actions not involved directly with another individual - - like what one chooses to eat, or invest, or etc., etc.
I will have to investigate your 'Taboo' to see if I can understand it and respond.
By 'learn' I was thinking of the process that takes place from infancy on, whereby one discovers what actions work (or don't) to get rid of "felt uneasiness's"

I totally buy into the idea that there are no "rights," only choices.

[NonEntity]

(12-30-2011 06:10 AM)eye2i2hear Wrote:  denizen, I'm genuinely interested in what the word 'learn' means or entails here?

No offense intended Eye2, but I'm totally confused that you need a definition for "learn." (Reminds me of Clinton's "what the definition of 'is' is."*) I'm assuming that you have at least one idea of what "learn" means, and apparently you are thinking that Denizen means something else? I'm wondering what it is that leads you to believe that he doesn't mean "learn" when he says learn.

'Splain please, if you can and feel so inclined.

- NonE


{edit} * although, now looking at what I wrote, and considering E-prime and all, maybe Clinton wasn't so "out there" as we all assume he must have been. RealSkinny and Clinton might oughta get together and do a road show!

[eye2i2hear]

(12-30-2011 09:30 AM)NonEntity Wrote:  

(12-30-2011 06:10 AM)eye2i2hear Wrote:  denizen, I'm genuinely interested in what the word 'learn' means or entails here?

No offense intended Eye2, but I'm totally confused that you need a definition for "learn." (Reminds me of Clinton's "what the definition of 'is' is."*) I'm assuming that you have at least one idea of what "learn" means, and apparently you are thinking that Denizen means something else? I'm wondering what it is that leads you to believe that he doesn't mean "learn" when he says learn.

'Splain please, if you can and feel so inclined.

- NonE


{edit} * although, now looking at what I wrote, and considering E-prime and all, maybe Clinton wasn't so "out there" as we all assume he must have been.

No offense taken~

Couple of off the top replies (aka 'thoughts'): why did you take my query "out of context" viz quote only the first sentence? I'll counter that coupling the first aspect with the latter provides the clarity of what I was genuinely curious about. I also thought including the "and entails" qualified it (even if only the first sentence was there) as well. Indeed, I wasn't in need of a dictionary quotation --and don't feel that's what I asked. eye could be wrong (again). [not to get into the likelihood, considering the track record, that dictionaries will have multiple meanings/entries...?]

Might it aide you further for me to remind that one is said to learn via Public Schooling? Some 'learn' from God (but I repeat myself?!). Which is not to imply I took that to be denizon's meaning/intent, but rather, that questions can be asked regarding a broader audience* (or "we" wouldn't be here, would we?). Some learn from examining feelings (e.g. empathy); other's from logical consistency. Some from some combination, or all of the above.
*(and granted, one guy's idea of prodding via questioning is another's (being a) prick --see Prick Cheney)

Also, if you've never actually read Clinton's dialog/the exchange, it's very likely, imo, that too is out of context (classic when it comes to MSM?!) and thus why it seems trivial/nitpicky/like nonsense/NonSense2?

denizen's reply actually conveys to me that indeed, he caught the gist of my query --though I feel there's more nuggets to be uncovered if plowing continues (e.g. what does "discover" entail, or boil down to? discovering=hearing "the still small voice" within? valuing, further, logical consistency that reduces turmoil and/or pain?)... (are one guy's nuggets, another guy's hemorrhoids?!)

I'd also like to express to denizen that I held no intent to trivialize or nitpick or be a dick/prick in my asking. Rather, i held a genuine sense of (what I oft call) The Voltaire Admonition: If you wish to communicate with me, first define your terms. Or "Taboo". For as Gloria Estefan contemporaneously put it, and I find: "Words get in the way..."

And there's that ole sayin'bout "assume" (ass out of u & me)...

[NonEntity]

(12-30-2011 11:11 AM)eye2i2hear Wrote:  Might it aide you further for me to remind that one is said to learn via Public Schooling? Some 'learn' from God (but I repeat myself?!). Which is not to imply I took that to be denizon's meaning/intent, but rather, that questions can be asked regarding a broader audience* (or "we" wouldn't be here, would we?). Some learn from examining feelings (e.g. empathy); other's from logical consistency. Some from some combination, or all of the above.
*(and granted, one guy's idea of prodding via questioning is another's (being a) prick --see Prick Cheney)

See, that's what I mean. You give a whole list of various WAYS that a person may learn, but the underlying concept of what it means to "learn" is constant. And hence my confusion.

- NonE

[eye2i2hear]

(12-30-2011 11:45 AM)NonEntity Wrote:  See, that's what I mean.

'er, no, I don't see?

Quote:You give a whole list of various WAYS that a person may learn, but the underlying concept of what it means to "learn" is constant. And hence my confusion.

What part of using a descriptive or qualifying conjunction didn't you learn don't you git? again, I asked (in just the first half): mean or entail.

And how often have you heard folks use a term when they mean (confine it to) a way (or their way defines the term), thence assuming everyone else confines it that way?



and gist for the/one records sake (6 entries/qualifiers no less):

Quote:Source: WordNet ® 1.7
learn
v 1: acquire or gain knowledge or skills; "She learned dancing
from her sister"; "I learned Sanskrit" [syn: larn]
2: get to know or become aware of, usually accidentally; "I
learned that she has two grown-up children"; "I see that
you have been promoted" [syn: hear, get word, get
wind, pick up, find out, get a line, discover, see]
3: commit to memory; learn by heart [syn: memorize, con]
4: be a student of a certain subject; "She is reading for the
bar exam" [syn: study, read, take]
5: impart skills or knowledge to; "I taught them French"; "He
instructed me in building a boat" [syn: teach, instruct]
6: find out, learn, or determine with certainty, usually by
making an inquiry or other effort; "I want to see whether
she speaks French"; "See whether it works"; "find out if
he speaks Russian"; "Check whether the train leaves on
time" [syn: determine, check, find out, see, ascertain,
watch]

--http://dictionary.die.net/learn

Meanwhile (demonstrating the stupendously nice guy eyeiz), just for your sake:
denizen, could you tell us more about what you see this learning process entailing?

better?

++++++++++++
addendum (simply because it totally suprised moi!):
upon looking at one dictionary, under the word 'mean', not once does the word "definition" (nor "define") appear! so what does it mean [sic] when one uses the word 'mean' and another hears it to mean [sic] 'definition'...?!?
(btw, that 2nd "one" prior to this would have easily heard the same)

[NonEntity]

Sigh.

- NonEnlightenedUnlearnedStoopidNincompoooop

[eye2i2hear]

(12-30-2011 12:24 PM)NonEntity Wrote:  Sigh.

- NonEnlightenedUnlearnedStoopidNincompoooop

What does ":brickwall:" mean...?

[yeah eye did!!! muwaaaaahahaha!!!]

[NonEntity]

By the way, I just HAVE to comment on your "dictionary..."

Specifically item 5. "5: impart skills or knowledge to; "I taught them French"; "He instructed me in building a boat" [syn: teach, instruct]"

WTF? "He learned me French?" "He learnt me howta builda boat?"

Jesus H. Christ man, the word is not "taught," it's LEARN. Why doesn't it have item 306: He masticated upon the concept until it dissolved. At which time he spit upon his brethren and they became blind, yet still could see.

And then there's item 6 wherein one of the words used to describe "learn" is ... wait for it......... "learn!" UFR! (Un.......Real!)

- NonExplosive (at room temperature)

(12-30-2011 12:18 PM)eye2i2hear Wrote:  and gist for the/one records sake (6 entries/qualifiers no less):

Quote:Source: WordNet ® 1.7
learn
v 1: acquire or gain knowledge or skills; "She learned dancing
from her sister"; "I learned Sanskrit" [syn: larn]
2: get to know or become aware of, usually accidentally; "I
learned that she has two grown-up children"; "I see that
you have been promoted" [syn: hear, get word, get
wind, pick up, find out, get a line, discover, see]
3: commit to memory; learn by heart [syn: memorize, con]
4: be a student of a certain subject; "She is reading for the
bar exam" [syn: study, read, take]
5: impart skills or knowledge to; "I taught them French"; "He
instructed me in building a boat" [syn: teach, instruct]
6: find out, learn, or determine with certainty, usually by
making an inquiry or other effort; "I want to see whether
she speaks French"; "See whether it works"; "find out if
he speaks Russian"; "Check whether the train leaves on
time" [syn: determine, check, find out, see, ascertain,
watch]

--http://dictionary.die.net/learn