I spoke to the New York "State" department of Taxation and Finance

[holipsism]

9/3/08

They sent me a threatening letter stating that I owed them $768.50 for being a resident of New York "State."

I had the script on my computer I was following and these were the questions I asked (the last one was as far as I got)

I’m here to resolve this matter. If there is an obligation owed, then I will pay it. I am not a lawyer and don’t really understand all this, but I am happy to pay you, all I want to see are the facts your opinions are based, so I have a few questions. Because this is so confusing, please limit your answers to yes or no. Thank you.

Do you intend on treating me fairly today? Yes or no.

She said YES.

If I ask a relevant question is it reasonable to expect a responsive answer? Yes or no.

She said YES

Your opinion there is an obligation wasn’t pulled out of thin air was it? Yes or no.

She said NO

So you definitely have grounds to support your opinion there is an obligation? Yes or no.

She said YES.

Are you a lawyer? Yes or no.

She said NO

Are you required to be a lawyer to do your job with the NYSDTF Yes or no.

She said NO.

Can people acquire rights to property by just forcibly taking it from the owner? Yes or no.

This is where she paused. She didn't want to give a Yes or No answer. She said she thinks the answer is no but she isn't a legal expert to which I stated, "The reason I called is because I got a threatening letter telling me that if I did not pay they would put liens and levies on my accounts and quite possibly throw me in jail."

Then I asked:

How are property rights acquired, by force or by consent?

She really didn't want to answer this one, but leaned toward consent but restated she wasn't a "legal expert."

Are the tax statutes, i.e., title 26 of the United States Code, obligatory on me? Yes or no.

She said she didn't know what the statutes were. (interesting, considering I have a letter threatening to take money out of my bank account)

You know and understand how and why a legal obligation is created? Yes or no.

She said Yes but then caught herself and said she can show me the calculations on how they arrived at that figure. I told her I knew how they arrived at the figure but my question was about how the obligation was created.

So you’re qualified to say whether a legal obligation was created? Yes or no.

At this point she said..."wait one minute...."

She put me on hold for a few minutes and then came back on line telling me that although the letter states I owed $768.50 to the "state" they didn't calculate a withholding (sounds like boo-sit to me) and that now I had a credit that was more than what I owed. Once I heard that I did what everyone should do in that situation and allowed them to back away from me. The purpose and goal is to be left alone, right? So, in short, I owe them nothing and they are sending me a small credit.

Now, what is interesting more so than getting money back is actually seeing everything we've talked about manifest into reality in REAL TIME. No way in hell do I believe a credit has just been sitting on my account all this time and now this particular agent just happened to notice it.

I have to admit, at first, a part of me was afraid and just wanted to pay the money because I didn't want to have any problems with them. BUT...the beautiful part is all I did was ask questions. I wasn't confrontational and I didn't challenge their authority. I merely asked questions to get them to explain to me how an obligation was created and they could not answer them. I suggest you all do the same thing the next time they threaten you.


P.S. Thanx Marc!  Sorry, I couldn't call into the show but because of my work schedule I'm never home when the show is on.  :frown:
ONE LOVE

[NonEntity]

holipsism Wrote:She put me on hold for a few minutes and then came back on line telling me that although the letter states I owed $768.50 to the "state" they didn't calculate a withholding (sounds like boo-sit to me) and that now I had a credit that was more than what I owed. Once I heard that I did what everyone should do in that situation and allowed them to back away from me. The purpose and goal is to be left alone, right? So, in short, I owe them nothing and they are sending me a small credit.

Congratulations.  And for myself and all the rest of us out here, I thank you for taking one small step for holipsism, one great leap for non-submitizenkind.

- NonE

[eye2i2hear]

Awesome!
I celebrate at the news of your courage & progress!


If I may look back into the trenches here with you, for clarity's sake, had you "paid" any taxes to "New York State"* at any time prior to this instance?  And if so, how many times/years?  Along that lines, would you have ever paid sent them more than you were credited?  *[for our Inc. INK fans: NEW YORK STATE <==that all caps incantation...]

I mainly ask to further solidify what sure sounds like a big BIG time dodge ("Oh lookie!  We found money we owed you lying around!" --emphasis on the "lying"!)

I also respect any privacy issues you may have in answering this (you don't know me/us from squat), so keep your peace if that's any concern at all.

Again, awesome report. 

ps: I also appreciate your admonishment regarding "backing away"; I agree that this is the wise action.

*** kudos to Marc as well!! ***

[Lummox3]

Nice one.  ;D

[NonEntity]

eye2i2hear Wrote:*** kudos to Marc as well!! ***

Kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo kudo ... etc.

- NonE

[eye2i2hear]

"kudo... kudo"

[Marc Stevens]

Thanks guys I appreciate it

Nice job holipsism, thanks for the details, that's cool.  Reminds me of a song...

If I can make it there, I'll make it...anywhere...

[saran9188]

Hi first post. Really getting into Marc's Youtubes.

If I run a small business and for years the State doesn't audit me and suddenly wants to audit me without as you say a previous agreement or contract with them I was wondering if I should prepare to use this script to the State's audit request or if State makes a claim for money?

If so is the full "script" available? (So for bumping an old thread.)

Or should I just do the 2 taxable income questions?

[WorBlux]

Yes, saran there's a script in the store that includes civil, criminal and tax questions. If you haven't read the book, that's a good place to start as well.

The two question, I usually see used in letters, the scripts I see people use for phone calls and legal hearings.

As to how you should use it... I'm not really qualified to advise on that issue, although one thing I will say is that the sooner you can get an attack against you to stop, the better.

[saran9188]

WorBlux Wrote:Yes, saran there's a script in the store that includes civil, criminal and tax questions. If you haven't read the book, that's a good place to start as well.

Thanks I found the store scripts page.