Also from wonderful Jersey

[Chariot7]

Northern part of Jersey. I have an issue with these folks up here as well. Question, is anybody familiar with the Oaths of Office. As soon as it happened, I went to the Clerk's office and requested an Oath of Office for all of the officers involved. Three of the five officers, and in particular the one who's name is the complainant on my traffic tickets - actually didn't have an Oath of Office on file in the clerk's office. The clerk delayed me for about 14 days first of all, then they finally sent me a copy and they were dated that morning she sent them! So, these officers were all sworn in as police officers two weeks after they arrested me (disorderly persons chg) and gave me a series of tickets for traffic violations. Any additional suggestions on how to approach this? Have to go to court next week. Thanks all...

[Kel]

First off, welcome.

Second, we don't like your kind around here [Jersey folk], so please leave. One is enough.

Third, just kidding!


And fourth,


I wouldn't worry about the Oath of Office approach. It's irrelevant. Like I mentioned to the other guido ( ) in his thread, your best bet would be to address causation. Assuming you didn't harm anyone or their property (we could use some more details), there is no injury or damage, hence no cause of action. Marc has constructed a keen way of setting them up to demonstrate this fact, with just a few questions.



-NonE-Prime

[Grey beard]

I've used the oath approach to good effect. It's not popular here, but if I were to prosecute these guys for malicious trespass, they'd be in a bad way. Their departments wouldn't couldn't have their backs ( it's a bond issue ). I would sue the ones without oaths as they were any other attacker. I don't believe the insurance co would cover those " officers ", and they would be looking at personal liability. I kinda mentioned those things before, and they politely wished me a nice life, and that I ignore the invitation to their court house. Of course they may also do a drive-by on the house, but if you're game....

I'm surprised they gave you an oath at all. With an oath, their acts are treason, and without an oath, they are impersonating officers.

Having said all that, stick with Marc's approach. You could still ask the judge about the oath issue while you're at it.

[Chariot7]

Thanks for the help, here's More info...
No injury or damage involved, "Regular" traffic tickets for no reg, no license, no insurance, unclear plates, they made up a failed to turn to validate their stop in the first place. They threw in a disorderly persons chg (criminal) of false id, because they didn't like the identification I gave them which of course wasn't issued by their "state" government.
Went to court already, but made me wait till everybody else left the courtroom and brought in about 5 officers to basically surround me, and judge got mad at me when I told him I didn't understand the chgs. Started to question jurisdiction, but he put off trial for all chgs till next week. Suggested for me to get a lawyer since I don't "understand".
They took my vessel though, which I actually have the Certificate of Origin for, so the "state" really has no interest in it. They will not release it and are holding it for "investigation". Want my jeep back...

(03-30-2012 06:43 PM)Kel Wrote:  First off, welcome.

Second, we don't like your kind around here [Jersey folk], so please leave. One is enough.

Third, just kidding!


And fourth,


I wouldn't worry about the Oath of Office approach. It's irrelevant. Like I mentioned to the other guido ( ) in his thread, your best bet would be to address causation. Assuming you didn't harm anyone or their property (we could use some more details), there is no injury or damage, hence no cause of action. Marc has constructed a keen way of setting them up to demonstrate this fact, with just a few questions.



-NonE-Prime

---

Thanks for the help...
I posted more details of my specific challenge in my other reply above. I want to have several methods available to me. Also, want to get my jeep back which I hold the Certificate of Origin to. Ever worked with that?
Also, how does the Media Rep thing work I've seen come others mention in the forum? I see they posted a notice outside the courtroom that some statute prohibits any recording devices being used in their courtroom.

Thanks again.

(03-30-2012 10:26 PM)Grey beard Wrote:  I've used the oath approach to good effect. It's not popular here, but if I were to prosecute these guys for malicious trespass, they'd be in a bad way. Their departments wouldn't couldn't have their backs ( it's a bond issue ). I would sue the ones without oaths as they were any other attacker. I don't believe the insurance co would cover those " officers ", and they would be looking at personal liability. I kinda mentioned those things before, and they politely wished me a nice life, and that I ignore the invitation to their court house. Of course they may also do a drive-by on the house, but if you're game....

I'm surprised they gave you an oath at all. With an oath, their acts are treason, and without an oath, they are impersonating officers.

Having said all that, stick with Marc's approach. You could still ask the judge about the oath issue while you're at it.

[Grey beard]

A media rep is pretty much an eye witness to the proceedings. Take as many with you as you can get to go. You will find that they will hold your hearing until they have cleared the room of other cases. They like to work in shadow. All criminals like shadow.

[Chariot7]

Very interesting. When I was there they did wait till every single person had left the room... 54 cases, four DWI cases/trials and all! Then they brought more officers in and surrounded me.

(03-31-2012 12:54 PM)Grey beard Wrote:  A media rep is pretty much an eye witness to the proceedings. Take as many with you as you can get to go. You will find that they will hold your hearing until they have cleared the room of other cases. They like to work in shadow. All criminals like shadow.