Serious - We needed a Juan
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Author: Freerangecanuck
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Serious - We needed a Juan
10-08-2017, 06:52 PM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2017 06:53 PM by NonEntity.)
Post: #16
RE: Serious - We needed a Juan

...intellectual property...

Is that like when you put on a bow tie and jump up and down yelling ITS MINE, MINE, MINE!, Izzat it?

- NonE the severely deluded Sister Sleazious .).

"I just don't understand how this happens." Undecided
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10-09-2017, 06:27 AM
Post: #17
RE: Serious - We needed a Juan
(10-08-2017 06:52 PM)NonEntity Wrote:  

...intellectual property...

Is that like when you put on a bow tie and jump up and down yelling ITS MINE, MINE, MINE!, Izzat it?

[Claims are evidence]

HEY! That's my idea!
You stole my intellectual property.


[End Galt's Claims are evidence.]

Can anybody delegate an authority they don't have?
Was anybody born with innate authority over anybody else?
Then how did authority nobody had get delegated to those who call themselves government?

Show me my personally signed contract wherein I consented to be governed.
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10-09-2017, 09:28 AM
Post: #18
RE: Serious - We needed a Juan
(10-09-2017 06:27 AM)Habenae Est Dominatus Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 06:52 PM)NonEntity Wrote:  

...intellectual property...

Is that like when you put on a bow tie and jump up and down yelling ITS MINE, MINE, MINE!, Izzat it?

[Claims are evidence]

HEY! That's my idea!
You stole my intellectual property.


[End Galt's Claims are evidence.]

Didn't you see the SERIOUS in the title? I'm You're outta line.

- NonE the severely deluded Sister Sleazious .).

"I just don't understand how this happens." Undecided
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10-09-2017, 02:08 PM
Post: #19
RE: Serious - We needed a Juan
(10-09-2017 09:28 AM)NonEntity Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 06:27 AM)Habenae Est Dominatus Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 06:52 PM)NonEntity Wrote:  

...intellectual property...

Is that like when you put on a bow tie and jump up and down yelling ITS MINE, MINE, MINE!, Izzat it?

[Claims are evidence]

HEY! That's my idea!
You stole my intellectual property.


[End Galt's Claims are evidence.]

Didn't you see the SERIOUS in the title? I'm You're outta line.

Yeah, I did. I thought it had sumpthin ta do with XM radidio.

Can anybody delegate an authority they don't have?
Was anybody born with innate authority over anybody else?
Then how did authority nobody had get delegated to those who call themselves government?

Show me my personally signed contract wherein I consented to be governed.
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10-12-2017, 07:36 PM
Post: #20
RE: Serious - We needed a Juan
(10-08-2017 04:28 AM)pigpot Wrote:  
(10-03-2017 09:10 PM)Freerangecanuck Wrote:  The latest stagnation in the form has been due to a lack of that in my opinion. How can we prepare to fight in court if we cannot fight but only cannibalize ourselves?

By joining the active role play chat on Skype. I feel the forum is to sloppy and is not as relevant as direct role play chat. This is due to the time allowed between posts which is not reflective of court room practice. You don't go to court and type questions. So why practice like that? I'll give you a for instance: I had a great role play chat tonight to prove a point to a new poster. Me alleged defendant against one of the most experienced posters as Judge. It ended well for me. It's the best you will get before being in the den. Socratics helps at work, at cop stops, at home and in the street and best in court when needed.

Ask Marc for a link to the Skype chat room. Two Thumbs Up Grinning

Oh! And Gabe... You stole my signature. Which originally was stolen by TOM, so as for intellectual property I'm not sure as to your argument.Tounge

As an individual note, for me this will not work. I am only speaking for myself. It has to with my inability to engage when I know I don't have a true adversary. I will clam up in that type of setting due to lack of focus on an actual real world problem. For what ever reason I find myself effective when an actual adversary is across the table, so to speak. That is when I am able to expand my thoughts.

Purveyor of the 60 MPH post.
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10-12-2017, 08:03 PM
Post: #21
RE: Serious - We needed a Juan
(10-12-2017 07:36 PM)Freerangecanuck Wrote:  As an individual note, for me this will not work. I am only speaking for myself. It has to with my inability to engage when I know I don't have a true adversary. I will clam up in that type of setting due to lack of focus on an actual real world problem. For what ever reason I find myself effective when an actual adversary is across the table, so to speak. That is when I am able to expand my thoughts.

Yer speakin' fer me also on this point.

Tangent, off topic, off site.

Can anybody delegate an authority they don't have?
Was anybody born with innate authority over anybody else?
Then how did authority nobody had get delegated to those who call themselves government?

Show me my personally signed contract wherein I consented to be governed.
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10-15-2017, 07:53 AM
Post: #22
RE: Serious - We needed a Juan
For someone to claim they have been a lawyer for so long, he sure looks young....or maybe there are many Juan G's.

at 1;01 introduction.......then at the end he appears as interviewer at 33;00 or so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hH9r7ATEwQ
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10-15-2017, 08:09 AM
Post: #23
RE: Serious - We needed a Juan
(10-15-2017 07:53 AM)Ripsaw Wrote:  For someone to claim they have been a lawyer for so long, he sure looks young....or maybe there are many Juan G's.

at 1;01 introduction.......then at the end he appears as interviewer at 33;00 or so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hH9r7ATEwQ

Methinks many. The guy that was here claimed he had a grandchild.

Can anybody delegate an authority they don't have?
Was anybody born with innate authority over anybody else?
Then how did authority nobody had get delegated to those who call themselves government?

Show me my personally signed contract wherein I consented to be governed.
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10-15-2017, 09:14 PM
Post: #24
RE: Serious - We needed a Juan
probably in the just as good a place as any category...

#demonizing=criminalizing? #thereisnowe?

fwiw/fyc...

I Grew Up In The Westboro Baptist Church Here's Why I Left [TED Talk video; runtime 16mins]

Quote:4,633,088 views
Filmed February 2017 at TEDNYC

What's it like to grow up within a group of people who exult in demonizing ... everyone else? Megan Phelps-Roper shares details of life inside America's most controversial church and describes how conversations on Twitter were key to her decision to leave it. In this extraordinary talk, she shares her personal experience of extreme polarization, along with some sharp ways we can learn to successfully engage across ideological lines.

Transcript

from the beginning Wrote:I was a blue-eyed, chubby-cheeked five-year-old when I joined my family on the picket line for the first time. My mom made me leave my dolls in the minivan. I'd stand on a street corner in the heavy Kansas humidity, surrounded by a few dozen relatives, with my tiny fists clutching a sign that I couldn't read yet: "Gays are worthy of death." This was the beginning.

Our protests soon became a daily occurrence and an international phenomenon, and as a member of Westboro Baptist Church, I became a fixture on picket lines across the country. The end of my antigay picketing career and life as I knew it, came 20 years later, triggered in part by strangers on Twitter who showed me the power of engaging the other.

In my home, life was framed as an epic spiritual battle between good and evil. The good was my church and its members, and the evil was everyone else. My church's antics were such that we were constantly at odds with the world, and that reinforced our otherness on a daily basis. "Make a difference between the unclean and the clean," the verse says, and so we did. From baseball games to military funerals, we trekked across the country with neon protest signs in hand to tell others exactly how "unclean" they were and exactly why they were headed for damnation. This was the focus of our whole lives. This was the only way for me to do good in a world that sits in Satan's lap. And like the rest of my 10 siblings, I believed what I was taught with all my heart, and I pursued Westboro's agenda with a special sort of zeal.

In 2009, that zeal brought me to Twitter. Initially, the people I encountered on the platform were just as hostile as I expected. They were the digital version of the screaming hordes I'd been seeing at protests since I was a kid. But in the midst of that digital brawl, a strange pattern developed.
...

one take-away:
Quote:It took time, but eventually these conversations planted seeds of doubt in me.

My friends on Twitter took the time to understand Westboro's doctrines, and in doing so, they were able to find inconsistencies I'd missed my entire life. ...

The truth is that the care shown to me by these strangers on the internet was itself a contradiction. It was growing evidence that people on the other side were not the demons I'd been led to believe.

These realizations were life-altering. Once I saw that we were not the ultimate arbiters of divine truth but flawed human beings, I couldn't pretend otherwise. I couldn't justify our actions -- especially our cruel practice of protesting funerals and celebrating human tragedy. These shifts in my perspective contributed to a larger erosion of trust in my church, and eventually it made it impossible for me to stay.

In spite of overwhelming grief and terror, I left Westboro in 2012. In those days just after I left, the instinct to hide was almost paralyzing.

If you can catch her shortish interview on Sarah Silverman's new 1/2hr Hulu program ("I Love You, America"), there's some nuggets (e.g. she uses the "P" word!) there as well, imho.

___________________________
1. one might take issue with the statement that The Westboro church is America's most controversial church--IF American's weren't too typically dyed-in-the-wool members of The USA church.? (side-bar: the term "the church" in most AEngloish buybull translations in numerous other places, due to patent context in said places, being also translated as "the assembly", offered for consideration; see "The General Assembly", and "The House" of "God" vs "Representatives" for bonus consideration.?)

Is it voluntary? (because if it isn't, what inherently is it?)
And can it be voluntary, if there's indoctrination, intimidation, coercion, threats & initiation of violence?
[not to be confused with asking: can it be said to be "voluntary" even when such is present.?]
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10-16-2017, 06:53 AM
Post: #25
RE: Serious - We needed a Juan
TL;DR GE;ETR

- NonE the severely deluded Sister Sleazious .).

"I just don't understand how this happens." Undecided
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10-16-2017, 10:53 AM (This post was last modified: 10-16-2017 10:55 AM by eye2i2hear.)
Post: #26
RE: Serious - We needed a Juan
M2i; TDSFA!

A *rough* transcript of Sarah Silverman's interview/chat with Megan Phelps-Roper, from Sarah's Hulu series I Love You, America * with Sarah Silverman*, which debuted Oct 2017.
Quote:SS: My guest tonight grew up in the Westboro Baptist Church, which her grandfather, Fred Phelps, founded. You know them, they protest soldier's funerals with signs like this:
[Image: megan.phelps.protesting.jpg?dl=0]
Um, that is actually her in the photo; it was all she knew and everything she loved. But when she was put in charge of social media for the church, she found herself changed. Welcome my friend, Megan Phelps-Roper.
<snip>
SS: So OK, Westboro Baptist Church is considered a hate group. Why is that?

MP-R: Because we did a lot of things that seemed hateful to most people. We believed it was loving; we thought that loving our neighbor, was going to warn them of the concequences of their sins. But we did things-- we celebrated 9-11, and hurricane Katrina, and every sort of human tragedy; we protested funerals. Um, like I said, we did because we believed that was the definition of love. We thought we were loving our neighbor with those [protest] signs. So God Hates Fags, was a way of loving our neighbor.

SS: So tell me about your moment of change.

MP-R: So I got on Twitter, in 2009, and that's where my first doubts really came from. Um, Twitter was a lot like pickets at first; it was really hostile, I was saying really provcative things, and people were responding in kind. And then, after awhile, there was this group of people-- just individuals, who-- because we were able to finally have sort of extended, on-going conversation-- you could have that on Twitter in a way you couldn't on a picket line-- um, people got to know me, and I got to know them, and we got to see that neither of us, neither side was the monstrous, you know, image we had had in our heads.

SS: OK, so you've said that you married your troll; which you did, you married you Twitter Troll. And how did he-- how was he able to get through to you?

MP-R: So first I should say that he would probably object to being called a troll? But he was arguing from a position of, yeah, I'm hearing what you're saying, and I understand; I see these things in the bible, but --for instance, picketing funerals, like, what about the family? We literally had a sign that said, God Hates Your Feelings. So I had learned from a very young age to just dimiss people; and their thoughts and feelings, and how we impacted them. And my, now, husband, who at the time was totally anonymous, and, I didn't know [blushing]-- anyways, he's an incredible human being.

SS: It's practically like J-Date [audience laffs]

MP-R: It's amazing that he, and people like him, took the time, and had the patience, um, to really affectively challenge me. And I think it's incredibily important, and a super effective tactic when you're dealing with extremists.

SS: Ya know, talking about extremism-- I think that your presence in this conversation is so powerful because, you literally understand, you know-- Charlottesville. This is something that you genuinely kindof can understand--

MP-R: Yeah; and I think that one thing that's really important for people to understand, is that, I think that extremists generally, are not psychopaths. They're not-- you know, they're psychologically normal people, who have been persuaded by bad ideas. And we can't expect to, like, isolate these people and hope that those ideas will fade into oblivion. We really have to engage those ideas and find ways of, one, understanding the mindsets of the people that we're dealing with. And then, effectively constructing arguments and evidence, and presenting those things. And it's not just for the sake of these extremists, right? Because they impact the rest of society. Young people, especially I think, are more susceptible and vunerable to them. So we present the arguments not just for them-- just the people who are in it, or are doing things we find reprehensible, you know, like what happened in Charolettesville; we actually have to address it.

SS: You know, it is interesting, because my first instinct, my first impulse go, "well these extremists, they're not psychopaths, they're just normal people"--and in my mind I went, "uuuuh I don't know about THAT". And then I look at who I'm talking to [pointing at MP-R], and you're the perfect example of that, you know? Tell me what happened when you left the church.

MP-R: When someone leaves the church, they are immediately cut-off from everyone in the church.
SS: And that's your entire family.
MP-R: Yeah; next month will be 5 years since I left. Um--

SS: Such a short amount of time, really--

MP-R: Yeah, it seems like forever; like, I can't believe it's been that long since I've seen, you know-- [shaking her head] I'm not going to cry. Um, I spent a lot of time, the past 5 years, with these communities that I used to target as the church. And really trying to find a way to sort of repair some of the damage that I did while I was there. Sooo, I've been working with schools, middle schools and high schools on anti-bullying campaigns, and with law enforcement on hate-crimes and counter-terrorism, and extremism. And just really trying to find a way to use these experiences to do good. For instance, like I was staying with Rabbi Yonabookstein [sp?] here in Los Angelos; who I had picketed 3 years earlier with a sign that said, Your Rabbi Is A Whore. So like, this spending time with this rabbi--

SS: You think that rabbi's a whore, you should meet my sister the rabbi!
[laffs]
MP-R: [whispering] I'm sorry.
[SS reaches across to touch MP-R's shoulder]

SS: You are one of t-h-e most positive people I've ever met; what gives you hope?

MP-R: Well I think that a big part of it is that, at Westboro, like; we had a sign and a matching website-- literally, The World Is Doomed.com. And there's like this incredibly depressing view of other people. We basically saw everybody outside the church as inherently evil, and, you know deliberately doing what they knew was wrong. And, going to hell. And when I left, and I was meeting all these people, and realizing-- they're not monsters; they're just people trying to live their lives in the best way that they know how. And I find so much hope in that.

SS: Megan, thank you sooo much for coming.
"outside the church" = "outside the law" ("illegal alien")?

--NonJuanTL;DRity
_________________________________
sidebar bonus pix: some of Westboroitians's moments?:
[Image: fp_7864119_protests_fashionshow_nyc_02_09.jpg]
[Image: megan-phelps1.jpg]
[Image: hqdefault.jpg] (fine lines?)
[Image: rainbow11255715861.jpg] (fine lines?)

[Image: 70cd90fd5249a432bb9baa9f1726b2ee--atheis...-facts.jpg]
[Image: godhatesfags6.jpg]
[Image: 4th-of-july-parade-getty_1498669013505_9...ideo-still] (fine lines?)
[Image: kids-4th-of-july_uywhf8.jpg]
[Image: fourth-july-family-kids-today-160630-tea...-large.jpg]
Mamas don't let you babies grow up to be cowboys,
Don't let 'em pick guitars and drive them old trucks.
Make 'em be doctors judges and lawyers and such ...

Is it voluntary? (because if it isn't, what inherently is it?)
And can it be voluntary, if there's indoctrination, intimidation, coercion, threats & initiation of violence?
[not to be confused with asking: can it be said to be "voluntary" even when such is present.?]
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