out of the mouths of ... [article]
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out of the mouths of ... [article]
01-18-2018, 06:13 PM (This post was last modified: 01-19-2018 05:00 AM by eye2i2hear.)
Post: #1
out of the mouths of ... [article]
Out of the mouths of babes bullies ...
(subtitle: making Subjects, one mind at a time ...)

#reminders #appealingly #steamroll #cautionary

sum1 @ TheWeek.com Wrote:
How do you persuade climate deniers to believe in science? For the past several decades, as increasingly unhinged conspiracy theories have become inalterable Republican Party dogma, political scientists and activists have fretted about how to change their minds, and make the GOP like every other conservative party in the developed world. Various strategies in studies have not worked well at all.

But there is a different, appealingly simple solution to vaccine or climate denialism and other crank beliefs that create public policy emergencies: Just steamroll them with state power.

California provides an example of this, both in motivation and in execution. Only a couple years ago, it was a festering hotbed of vaccine-preventable diseases, because it had relatively lenient rules for avoiding vaccination for children and a bad case of vaccine denial, especially in certain communities. The result, as one might have predicted, was several outbreaks of measles — including a notorious one in Disneyland that gained national attention.

In response, California dramatically tightened up its vaccine rules. The major lever for enforcing vaccination is school attendance, and the state government ended all non-medical personal exemptions for children to attend public school. (Some people are allergic to vaccines — but that only increases the importance of everyone else getting their shots, so that people who can't be vaccinated can still be protected by herd immunity, which takes effect at around 95 percent vaccination.) As of mid-2015, every child without a doctor's note had to have their shots or be forbidden from attending school.

As The New York Times reports, the result was a tremendous increase in the vaccination rate:
Quote:Data from a county-by county analysis shows that in many schools with the lowest vaccination rates, there was an increase of 20 to 30 percentage points in the share of kindergartners vaccinated between 2014 and 2016. [New York Times]

Now, a cautionary note is in order. There ought to be a high bar for simply shoving people like this. In a free society, people ought to be able to live as they choose — so long as that is practicable for a similar freedom for everyone else.

California's vaccination law cleared that bar. While a sizable number of parents were simply coerced into getting shots, it was unquestionably worth doing. Vaccine denial is not some harmless nonsense, like flat Earth conspiracies or other silly ideas. Measles is a serious, extremely contagious disease that used to kill hundreds of thousands of people annually around the world. Whooping cough (another formerly rare disease that has made something of a comeback thanks to vaccine cranks) is horrifically unpleasant and can easily kill babies who catch it.

The case for California's policy was also much strengthened by the overwhelming scientific evidence that vaccines work well, with minimal side effects. The few anti-vaccine studies that have been produced turn out to be weak, poorly designed, and in the case of one notorious case study from Andrew Wakefield, actually fraudulent — prompting an official retraction and Wakefield being stripped of his medical license.

Climate policy is another area in which the views of deniers simply deserve no hearing whatsoever. Climate change is already causing large damage to world society, and we have very strong reason to think it will get much, much worse in the future. The scientific consensus is as strong as it could realistically be for future predictions about such a complicated system. The emission of greenhouse gases that cause climate change must be stamped out as fast as possible.

Luckily for President Trump and virtually every other Republican, climate policy doesn't require any injections. The required top-to-bottom overhaul of the American economy will be rather painful for a few people — executives and large shareholders of fossil fuel companies especially, and the ultra-wealthy in general to a lesser extent — but the vast majority of people will simply be nudged into moderately different, less energy-intensive lifestyles. The ones who will take a serious blow are among the most able to absorb it.

People should continue to press the arguments for bold policy — if nothing else, to convince elite Democrats to actually behave according to their stated views — but if that doesn't bring Republicans over, the left should feel completely comfortable stampeding over their conspiratorial objections. We simply don't have time to indulge this nonsense.

wow. just wow.

fwiw, i actually agree with that last bit Stare we simply don't have to indulge this nonsense --this Stateist nonsense; their Stated views.? (did someone say, "high bar"?)

#war...whatisit? #causingharm? #persuade #comfortablestampeding #simplyshoving

USA!...USA!...USA!... [Image: hitlerlq2.gif]

______________________
*MTC: spacing typo in quote

Is it voluntary? (because if it isn't, what inherently is it?)
And can it be voluntary, if there's indoctrination, intimidation, coercion, threats & initiation of violence?
[not to be confused with asking: can it be said to be "voluntary" even when such is present.?]
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01-18-2018, 09:55 PM (This post was last modified: 01-18-2018 09:56 PM by Freerangecanuck.)
Post: #2
RE: out of the mouths of ... [article]
At the very end of your comment you put a Hitler emoji. National socialism. I just want to add that Hitler was anti smoking and an animal lover.

I think the importance of these perspectives should be obvious to people proclaiming to be voluntarist so they do not fall into the same trap. This is not to detract from personal opinion. I respect individual opinion.

Where is the line in which opinion transforms to totalitarianism? At what point should we act?

So where is the cut off point when a person cannot defend themselves that someone can step in and provide defence? (not at a state level, I am talking about an introspective look at personal opinion.)

The scary prospect is the idea that we as humans put into the situation of Joe Blow in pre WW2 Germany is, would we have towed the line?

So I would submit that we need to be mindful of our opinions to the extent that they do not become religious/totalitarian in nature.

Note: I am only writing this because your post got the gears rolling in my head. So thank you.

Purveyor of the 60 MPH post.
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01-19-2018, 02:21 AM
Post: #3
RE: out of the mouths of ... [article]
(01-18-2018 06:13 PM)eye2i2hear Wrote:  
wow. just wow.

Incredulous! I wouldn't have believed had I not read it.

(01-18-2018 09:55 PM)Freerangecanuck Wrote:  I think the importance of these perspectives should be obvious to people proclaiming to be voluntarist so they do not fall into the same trap. This is not to detract from personal opinion. I respect individual opinion.

Where is the line in which opinion transforms to totalitarianism? At what point should we act?

So where is the cut off point when a person cannot defend themselves that someone can step in and provide defence? (not at a state level, I am talking about an introspective look at personal opinion.)

May I step in and help defend you? That works for me. There's no 'we' involved, that is, aside from me and the individual(s) I'm offering to defend. This is precisely why I've written on the character trait that each individual alone knows when he and she wants another individual to leave them alone. Which I have much more to say than what I have written thus far.

I'm more about solutions than I am about pointing out problems. I've often found that when trying to work out a solution is when I gain a better understanding of truly what the problem is. Case in point with my "recommendation" of a specific crypto-currency I wrote very briefly about here and here.

""Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." ~ John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902). The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton."

The gravitas is power equates to a mis-perceived authority that is greater than an individual's authority. Does the shortened version, the title, 'Lord', not give a clue to where the problem may reside?

I use that quote as a preface to a solution that addresses the problems both identified in the OP article and the "wow, just wow"/incredulous reactions. Problem, reaction, solution (as perceived in a Sun Tzu, use their weapons against them, strategy and tactic). Note in the second video below, the eight additional problems shown beneath the three phases. Two are specific to government forced vaccines and climate change/geo-engineering.

Trailer:




InPower Movement: Early results (Episode #1 clip):




https://inpowermovement.com

Bonus: driving the wedge -- divide and conquer separate criminals (value destroyers) from value creators.

--&e

What’s the difference between the government and the mafia?
The mafia doesn’t have a twelve year indoctrination system to convince you it’s not organized crime. ~ Brett Veinotte
Government public "education"/indoctrination is child abuse.
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01-19-2018, 05:49 AM (This post was last modified: 01-19-2018 06:03 AM by eye2i2hear.)
Post: #4
RE: out of the mouths of ... [article]
Andy brings up the "Lord" Acton quote (and a sharp insight as well), which prompted another bit of reasoning, in quote form¹, for me:

No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks. ²
—Mary Wollstonecraft, English feminist and writer (1759-1797)


One of the opposites of happiness, being, being fearful.? (other words for happiness being, well-being; and unharmed, including non-threatened.? and of course, arriving at ye olde standards, good vs bad/evil, moral vs immoral.?)

"do no harm"... cause no harm?

Most of the harm in the world is done by good people, and not by accident, lapse, or omission. It is the result of their deliberate actions, long persevered in, which they hold to be motivated by high ideals toward virtuous ends.... Certainly if the harm done by willful criminals were to be computed, the number of murders, the extent of damage and loss, would be found negligible in the sum total of death and devastation wrought upon human beings by their kind. Therefore it is obvious that in periods when millions are slaughtered, when torture is practiced, starvation enforced, oppression made a policy, as at present over a large part of the world, and as it has often been in the past, it must be at the behest of very many good people, and even by their direct action, for what they consider a worthy object. When they are not the immediate executants, they are on record as giving approval, elaborating justifications, or else cloaking facts with silence, and discountenancing discussion.
—Isabel Paterson (1943)


Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ³
—C.S. Lewis


_________________________
1. use of quotes as a matter of respect, as appreciation for artistry and craft expertise, hopefully rather than any Lording, as hidden/lingering Authority-think.? speaking of, sum takes on/addendum to Acton's insight:
Power attracts the corrupt; absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible.

Power attracts pathological personalities. It's not so much that power corrupts but that it attracts the corruptible.
—Frank Herbert

It is not that power corrupts, but rather that it is magnetic to the corruptible.
—Bene Gesserit (in the science fiction series, Dune)

Power does not corrupt. Fear corrupts; perhaps the fear of a loss of power.
—John Steinbeck


2. what's the probability this is accurate as including witches sociopaths? what's the probability it's accurate as including religious zealots? [too far? too soon? intended as a poke...]
[granting too, the author included a potential hinge term: "chooses" .?]

3. conscience being an interesting term; where my (perhaps optimistic) preference for it's usage preservation, makes the better term choice, contextually, conviction; one's own conviction.? conviction, as having been *cough*coerced* con`vinced from an early-an-age-as-possible...? #thinlines --blue, red, or white (or black&white, as black vs white, "light" vs "darkness")?
3.a. "of all the tyrannies"... might that include Tyranny of (the) Words, aye, Stuart Chase?

*bonuses:
To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he's doing is good... Ideology - that is what gives devildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes, so that he won't hear reproaches and curses but will receive praise and honors.
—Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn


Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than when they are convinced beyond doubt that they are right.
—Laurens Van der Post


[and with an eye back 2owards mYe original post]:

Simple, clear purpose and principles give rise to complex, intelligent behavior. Complex rules and regulations give rise to simple, stupid behavior.
—Dee Hock


** are "evil" and "good", beliefs believed...? if nothin' else, can they be?

Is it voluntary? (because if it isn't, what inherently is it?)
And can it be voluntary, if there's indoctrination, intimidation, coercion, threats & initiation of violence?
[not to be confused with asking: can it be said to be "voluntary" even when such is present.?]
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01-19-2018, 07:46 AM
Post: #5
RE: out of the mouths of ... [article]
(01-19-2018 05:49 AM)eye2i2hear Wrote:  It is not that power corrupts, but rather that it is magnetic to the corruptible.
—Bene Gesserit (in the science fiction series, Dune)

In the desert you can see your enemies from afar. In society, not so much. I was a military welfare whore stationed in Arizona when I read Dune.

Incomprehensible movie when watched by those who never read the book.

Good story, shitty movie, IMHO.

/off topic tangent.

Can anybody delegate an authority they don't have?
Was anybody born with innate authority over anybody else?
Then how did authority nobody had get delegated to those who call themselves government?

Show me my personally signed contract wherein I consented to be governed.
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01-19-2018, 10:25 AM
Post: #6
RE: out of the mouths of ... [article]
(01-19-2018 07:46 AM)Habenae Est Dominatus Wrote:  
(01-19-2018 05:49 AM)eye2i2hear Wrote:  It is not that power corrupts, but rather that it is magnetic to the corruptible.
—Bene Gesserit (in the science fiction series, Dune)

In the desert you can see your enemies from afar. In society, not so much. I was a military welfare whore stationed in Arizona when I read Dune.

Incomprehensible movie when watched by those who never read the book.

Good story, shitty movie, IMHO.

/off topic tangent.

I think i agree. Never having been a whore, i read the book and loved it. Saw the movie much later and want impressed.

- NonE the severely deluded Sister Sleazious .).

"I just don't understand how this happens." Undecided
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